Talking ESG at Thanksgiving Dinner
Some people are always grumbling because roses have thorns; I am thankful that thorns have roses - Alphonse Karr
It’s hard to believe we’ve nearly made another trip around the sun. Hopefully, now your budgets are in, your building certifications are wrapping up, and we can gather with family and friends and exhale. Many of us will return to our hometowns and attend dinners and feasts with loved ones we have long since outgrown. For those of us in sustainability, at some point, we will likely be asked about work, how it is going and likely asked to explain, “now, what exactly do you go again?” “What is ESG?” “What is sustainability?” With a county still sharply divided and one side attempting to pull in ESG as a political argument, chances are at some point in between mouthfuls of stuffing or mashed potatoes, those old familiar political gripes will surface…. so what should we do?
Certainly, we have that uncle or brother who will bring up that “woke ESG” movement or pull in an even older debunked talking point like the “climate hoax” If people don’t trust science in regards to vaccines that may save their lives, can we really expect them to trust science to explain what is going on with the climate?
If you work in Sustainability, you are an educator. Our job is to identify the language of our audience and take what could be a complicated topic, and put it into words that they can understand. While you may feel more comfortable simply ducking the conversation, the fact is you are exactly the right person to talk about ESG with your family and friends. While you may at first face talking points that are regurgitated from some random talk show, the bottom line is you are known, and people are more likely to believe people they know and trust.
So how might you tackle these conversations this year? I would challenge you to consider the same approach we use every day, and that is first to listen. Listening first instead of talking first accomplishes several things. First, it helps the skeptic at the table. Their views are increasingly fading, and chances are they feel like their voice isn’t being heard. I believe this is largely behind many of the election-denier positions - they just simply can’t believe that everyone doesn't think the same as them. So they get louder to try to make sure they are heard. If they don’t feel like their viewpoint is represented, they feel attacked and start to grasp as to why they are not wrong. This is not the time to lecture them on the evaporation cycle or sea level rise.
Many of you know out of college, I initially went into law enforcement. There are so many lessons I learned that I still use today, and one of those is conflict resolution. When people call 911, it is not because they are having a good day. You are pulling up into someone’s nightmare. They are in crisis mode. You cannot be as well. One of the first things we were taught in the academy was to defuse the situation. Let them calm down. Have them sit down, as it forces them to relax a little. Provide an opportunity for them to take a breath, and then ask them what is going on - let them speak their peace.
We have to remember even if it is completely incorrect; everyone has a point of view. If you dismiss it without acknowledging it, we are moving closer to an argument. Especially in the case of a holiday gathering, this is likely a friend or family member - but even if it is not - you will be more successful at educating them if you allow them to explain where they are coming from. Why do they believe what they believe? Where did their information come from? Understanding who they trust for information will help to understand how and why they feel as they do.
Having heard their point of view, consider asking questions about what you have just been told instead of launching into your point of view just yet. There are likely some elements of their position that are based on truth, even if twisted beyond recognition. Often those talking points that are repeated the most have some element of truth in them, which is why they are repeated more frequently. Showing some empathy and then sharing your concerns can be a powerful technique to start to win back your friend or family member.
You can now begin to bring on facts and science, but do so carefully and know when you have gone too far. Again, this is not a lecture - this is an educational opportunity. You’ll be more successful when it is a two-way conversation than when you simply preach. Let’s look at an example:
So some states have attempted to enact legislation that ESG factors cannot be considered in making investments…..
There are many ways to approach this, but first, let’s evaluate what was said. Chances are, it wasn’t presented as “some” states, remember what I said about people wanting to feel like they are in the majority? Chances are, this will be presented as ‘it is happening everywhere.”
For starters, it is not the majority of states. Texas was out front first, followed by Florida - both states led by governors that think they may be the next presidential candidate. In addition, Arizona, Idaho, Kentucky, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Wyoming have made similar legislative moves. So that is 10 states, not 50, and not even 50%. So for starters, this is happening in deep red states that don’t necessarily have a diverse set of world views - in other words, it is not everywhere; in fact, it is a handful of places. Places that, aside from Florida and Texas, have relatively small populations.
I then like to ask if the person who is bringing this up makes investments themselves. If so, great; let’s talk about things you think about when investing your money. We are pivoting to risk. What are things that might cause you to lose your investment?
What about if a company uses illegal labor practices? Perhaps they use child labor or even forced labor to make their product. If that was true, and it made headlines, could that impact the value of the investment into that company?
What about the company's ability to produce innovative products? How are they pivoting to technology and staying in front of consumers with cutting-edge ideas? Does this require a room full of people who all think and act the same way? If everyone just says yes, and no one has an original idea, how many new ideas come out of that room?
What about companies that waste their profits by buying things they don’t need, like water that is wasted or energy that is not efficiently used? Wouldn’t you get a greater return on your investment if the company had higher profits and lower operational expenses?
What about climate risks? Should your insurance rates be any different if you build in a flood plain compared to someone who builds on high ground? Should the driver of a car who is careful and doesn’t have accidents or traffic tickets pay less than the driver who does?
You can see, by peeling back the issue and defusing it - and talking about the actual impact - chances are your friend, or family member is going to be hard-pressed to argue that you shouldn’t consider those things.
So why, again, should we not consider risk when we make investments? What will happen to those states that ban their investments from considering the risks - they are going to lose money. Why are they banning considering risk - for a political stance? So who is actually woke? Is it the investor who wants to understand all of the potential things that could produce a lower return on investment and mitigate those risks - or is it the investor who ignores risk to make a political statement - by banning the impact ESG may have on their investment returns?
Of course, there are other ESG conversations that might make their way to the dinner table. It is helpful to brush up on your facts, so you can speak from a position of confidence. The New York Times published an article on climate facts which can be accessed here (link). Another resource is Inside Climate News, debunking climate change myths: a Holiday Conversation Guide. There is a website dedicated to explaining climate change and rebutting global warming misinformation called Skeptical Science. There is even an app called Cranky Uncle, which can provide additional resources and facts should you need them.
One approach that is particularly effective is bringing the conversation closer to home. It is easy for someone to point at something happening halfway across the world and discount its impact. How many of us are impacted by a polar bear stranded on a piece of ice? It is just too easy to say, “well, that isn’t happening to me.” Chances are, there are impacts closer to home that might provide better evidence. Forest fires in California, water shortages along the Colorado River Valley, record rainfalls across the midwest, or tidal flooding along the east coast. Chances are, there are real-life examples much closer to home that are easier for your friend or family member to relate to as impacting them.
Don’t forget, when all else fails - we still have the position of “what is the harm in having cleaner air or less pollution?” What if we create a better world for nothing….
I hope your holiday conversations are less stressful; thank you for reading my blog and helping to make the change that needs to be made. I am grateful for your friendship and impact.
You can help reduce the impact of the built environment by sharing this blog with your peers. Together we can impact the 39% of greenhouse gasses attributed to the built environment. It starts with awareness, and we succeed with teamwork.
Stay well!
Chris Laughman is the ThirtyNine Blog author, a blog dedicated to reducing the built environment’s impact. When not blogging, Chris is helping residents, clients, and investors reduce their energy, carbon, waste, and water impact as the Senior Director of Energy and Sustainability for Greystar. Our team’s insight into the utility consumption of our managed and owned portfolios provides insight into opportunities to identify and mitigate risk. We leverage innovation and experience to ignite solutions with real impacts while tracking performance, ensuring the trendline stays laser-focused on the goal. All of us in real estate have a tremendous opportunity to make a difference in the built environment. Standing shoulder to shoulder, we will get this done. I can be contacted at: chris.laughman@greystar.com for questions, concerns, or collaboration.
The opinions expressed in this blog are my own.
Follow us at:
Twitter: @BlogThirtynine
Instagram: ThirtyNine_Blog